A logical fallacy stands alone whether in or out of context. I have to chuckle every time I think about a comment our former IFB pastor said about lifestyle evangelism as he puts it. Please see the Tithing Deception and Tithe 10% or Get Punished articles for more information. Being to poor to pay the fines he was banished from the colony. Now when the head of a church & all dem that fall in line must appply apsotast (like openly Gay Pastor, etc) than you should have some of them on here big. Youve done nothing to, directly compare doctrine and practices using scripture to make the assertion which is correct.. Exposing the Dangerous Teachings of the Independent Fundamental Baptist (IFB) Denomination, Independent Fundamental Baptist (IFB) Deception 2009-2020, Independent Fundamental Baptist (IFB) Deception. The more and more that I looked into it and studied the scripture, I realized not only were they wrong they were *completely* wrong about tithing, in fact, they didnt have a clue, and this was the standard teaching throughout the IFB. Look at Ezekiel 33. You cannot read psalms w/out seeing those raised hands. It was founded by Roger Williams, according to the teachings and example of the New Testament. Im not saying thats the case only sharing my experience & by Gods grace I have done so I believe. So just these few examples demonstrate why many people, including me have a hard time understanding this ancient translation. http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/ This site is run by a Jack Hyles follower. I can relate i was in a IFB church, glad to be out. Tithing was never required for anyone except Jews who lived under the Mosaic economy. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.. @Lynne I appreciate your dedication and your spirit to pursue what God would have for you in the area of giving. This was the best onemembers in our church raise hands, say amen, clap after special music (GASP! Certainly we are not responsible for people we never have an opportunity to witness to. Giving ten percent to God is a good thing, I agree with that. Thank you. 1:6-10, 1 Tim. I do attend the Church of Christ. Christians should be recognized by their love for Jesus and one another. You have it backwards. Proverbs 21:24, Proud and haughty scorner is his name, who dealeth in proud wrath. Grace Independent Chapel Size: Medium church 126 Airport Rd Shamokin, PA. Loving Fellowship Baptist Church . It is not the name or the organization that makes a Biblical church, but its practice of the faith as revealed in the New Testament. A comprehensive Independent Baptist Church Directory listing over 8000 churches. However, Jesus did not tell you or me that we should give ten percent. To only teach from the New Testament and ignoring the old is not using the whole Word of God. The name Fundamental Independent Baptist is of recent origin and came into being because many modern day Baptist churches compromising the Word of God and teaching and practicing false doctrines. God bless. I doubt I would be allowed to wear Just a Speedo to any Church on a regular basis. They all hold to a system of hierarchy in church government and do not accept the autonomy the local church. Also, I support tithing personally. Baptists with other citizens were taxed to support the Episcopal church. From there, entering into an IFB church really gave me a culture shock. These churches patterned themselves strictly after the New Testament example, and this made them valid churches approved of God. To hold to the secessionist position takes the authority away from the New Testament and places it in the hands of man. Thier is nothing harmful in regard sto relating to other denominations if ny that you mean fellowships that are Christian. You should tithe, but if you dont thats between you and the Lord. In 1688 a Baptist church was organized at Pennepeck, Pennsylvania with twelve members. Though we no longer keep the ritual and sacramental law, Gods moral laws and prophesies of things yet to come are not to be ignored. For example these same people existed when He taught to look upon a woman with lust was Adultry & not just the physcial act. Separation is not the problem. Those who put in the effort will be greatly rewarded while those who neglect it do harm to their own souls. In 395 AD, Emperor Contantius Christianized Rome and made the worship of idols punishable by death. Headquarters are in Grandville, Michigan. I appreciate your response, I am especially glad to hear that your mother has returned to the church. The one caution I would give is to allow God to speak to you through the scriptures, that is the most critical. Ive told bits and pieces of my story here over the last couple of years, so dont want to travel back through all of that, suffice it to say I left a very legalistic IFB, and now find myself in a tiny, new work that a friend started about 4 years ago (about 20 on Sunday) he calls it a Baptist church, I spoke to him about taking the baptist title out of it, but he wouldnt have it. Also, when only what we do for Christ will last would include contributing to kingdom endeavors. This site and others consistently speak about folks that follow and uplift man, in my faith I want only to lift up the God-man!! 6) teach old testament tithing new testamenent giving is found in 2 Cor 9:7 Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. This is whats known as the Argumentum ad populum fallacy. In recent years the news media has called doctrinally unsound church such as the Charismatics and Pentecostals fundamentalists. It seems as if the preacher thinks it is within his ability to persuade people to accept Christ or to get people to witness or whatever. Association of Fundamental Baptist Churches in the Philippines I would either be kicked out or asked to put on something to wear. Each year members profess 16 articles of faith that include the original five points of fundamentalismthe literal truth of divinely inspired scripture, the Virgin Birth and deity of Christ, substitutionary atonement through Christ, the Resurrection, and the Second Coming of Christ. I would agree with this. John was Gods true prophet and the forerunner of the Messiah Jesus Christ, but he was not a part of the dispensation of the institution of the local church. Independent Fundamental Churches of America - Britannica They will not participate, as a church, in any outside function with churches which do not also strictly base their faith and practice on the New Testament. I am divorced, and I always sit in the front rows. Even after Williams left it, it continued to follow the New Testament and was not adversely effected. God bless. The Scripture: It is entirely inerrant and sufficient for all Christian life. He then baptized himself (which is not biblical) and then the others of his congregation. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. I, for one, am glad you wont post here again after that comment, but I hope you will at least read this, although Im not holding my breath. Pedophiles hide in dark corners. Sure enough, Stedfast Baptist Church, founded in 2017, is not a large or well-known church. I assume you are referring to the errant position that many Pastors, Deacons, or Elders have taken placing themselves between God & Man. Churches in USA; Churches in Canada; Churches in Australia; Churches in the UK; Churches Worldwide . Places Near Chandler, AZ with Independent Fundamental Baptist Churches. A response to Pastor James Meltons Questions for the KJV Critics, 69. But anyway he says that if those folks go to Hell, that their blood would be on your hands. The powertrip, which is all Ill call it, was even noticed to be among some of the laypersons who were ushers, or just people who knew people. I love your statement above about The Grace economy I think Im going to have to borrow it. However, after independence was won and the Constitutional written giving all Americans religious freedom, the Baptist again began to grow until today they are the largest denomination in the United States. The old testement tithes went to the Levite priests to support them (Numbers 18). You know, when you really dig into many religions you find much of mans tradition. @greg I went on to share with her that in that same passage it says, singing psalms, hymns (which by the way modern churches are throwing out) and spiritual songs. The issue that concerns me about dress standards is that the position a church takes is a Biblical one. Benedict in his history of the Baptists states the Gospel was preached in Britain within sixty years of the Lords return to heaven. But wouldnt Paul himself, or the original church to whom the letter was sent, count as outside authority and control? 5.) Fundamental Independent Baptists church will remain separate from these churches as well as other Baptists groups who participate with the unscriptural churches. Im made of dirt, but God is gonna let my neighbor go to Hell because the dirt-clod next door didnt give him a Chick tract!! We believe in salvation by grace through faith as described in Ephesians 2:8-9. Even if a church blows the interpretation of verses like this and sets up what you refer to as a hierarchy, I feel you are in error to claim that God has no party with them, see for reference the 7 churches in Revelation which had great things going for them, but Christ had to deal with their errors. https://www.wayoflife.org/free_ebooks/hyles_effect.php. The New Testament teaches the absolute autonomy of each local church who is to govern itself as the Word of God instructs free from outside authority and control. I am currently working on a research paper in seminary. Benedict states that the English Roman Catholics in 1535, put to death twenty two Baptists for heresies. 4. If you dont already, try it some time. 3. I would like comment on each trait if you dont mind: halftruth and deception ministries. Tithing is no longer a requirement and God doesnt not require a tithe for obedience as is preached in todays churches. But rather than ordaining ourselves mini-Holy Spirits we need to be faithful in our teaching, we need to teach repentance, and we need to leave the conviction of sin, righteousness and judgement to Almighty God. Ask these five questions of any church, and if they can answer all five in truth with a yes, then you will have a true Baptist church. The loved me and cared for my" So how all USA (& most Developed Nations tithe, etc) is no different than at my IFB Church fellowship I attend. 2 Timothy 2:15, Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. The only power above the pastor is God, and Gods silence seems to imply endorsement and collaboration. They submit a request to become affiliated and then are supplied with a form to fill out. But they should not be confused with Fundamental Baptists. My Sunday school teacher and I have discussed the music issue and we both agree that there is nothng wrong with contemporary Christian music (I do believe some of it lifts up flesh rather than Jesus, though). I would directly compare doctrine and practices using scripture to make the assertion which is correct. One of the last acts of the Presbyterians, before the Long Parliament in England fell, was to past a law passing the death penalty on anyone who was caught holding to what they called Eight Errors in Doctrine. These doctrines included infant baptism. Steve must have been on vacation or something. The Reformers were those who protested against certain abuses within the Roman Catholic Church. The pastor's name is Kevin Draganac. There is every value in appealing only to present adherence to the New Testament as ones sole authority for faith and practice. He told me that he attends a independent Baptist Church and stressed the importance of the small ( i ) in the name. It did not produce a succession of other churches, but those who founded it went on to set up other Baptist churches in England. http://www.wvec.com/news/local/INSIDE-A-NAKED-CHURCH-85062392.html. It is the Word of God, the Bible, that makes up what is a real and true church! Independent Fundamental Baptist Church Hope - Chapala lago, Patzcuaro -What about the Jerusalem Council in Acts (I believe I am using the right title here, but I have not check my accuracy)? The message is set. I suppose I should have asked a couple of questions first, to which group of The Church of Christ are you referring? But when we begin to paint entire church groups with the broad brush of generalities then OUR motives become suspect. They write new content and verify and edit content received from contributors. It began with a man named John Smyth who was a bishop in the Church of England. Since there is no membership at CCs, the congregation neither votes a pastor in, nor can vote their pastor out, if necessary, unlike a Baptist church. Many Baptist churches have Trustees, but their position was established in order to have legal signatories to sign legal documents of the church. Who are the Independent Baptists, and what do they believe? I do hope that your eyes will be opened up soon because keeping the law will not grant you entrance into heaven. Sounds like maybe you are in a pretty good church. Independent Fundamental Churches of America, https://www.britannica.com/topic/Independent-Fundamental-Churches-of-America, Official Site of IFCA International, Grandville, Michigan, United States. Greg all churches that suppoort Tithing as a good thing (incl IFB, CALVARLY CHAPEL, Many Non-Denominational Chruches,etc) Tithe a Tenth of thier income to building Gods Kingdom. Not once in the New Testament do you find even a hint that a church was legitimate because it was founded by Paul or called itself by a particular name. In 1906 there was a split with this group, some believing that there should be no musical instruments in the church (dont know where this got dreamed up, certainly didnt find it in the bible) This is when they started calling themselves the Churches of Christ. When people ask me what church I am a member of, I always tell them the Heavenly Church, wherever and whoever that is. The Trinity: God is one What and three Whos with each Who possessing all the attributes of Deity and personality. In Europe, Protestant churches are state churches and supported to some degree by government imposed taxes. Any church fellowship that encourages avoiding another Christian denomination/fellowship, even if they uphold & believe these, b/c they are not of the same denomination are in gross error & a cult. I would prefer just wearing casual clothes like I do just about every time. I will not post here again. (Quote from Dr. J. M. Carrolls booklet The Trail of Blood) These historians, in an attempt to show an unbroken line of Baptists in history, have embraced groups which were clearly not doctrinal sound. CALVARY BAPTIST CHURCH. Drinkers go to the next town to buy their drinks. To say there is a unbroken line or succession of Baptist churches from the time of Christ until today cannot be shown from history. A couple of things. Furthermore I believe it involved religion. Men meeting the Biblical qualification of deacons (servants) (1 Tim. A Church Directory For Independent Baptists Soul liberty is a belief that everyone is responsible to God individually. 1) strict adherence to one version of the bible My best friend who professes to be Christian (she attends a Southern Baptist church), is dating an evolutionist and she tells me that religion is not high up on her criteria for dating and marriage yet she will call me, upset, and say that her boyfriend is hasseling her about her faith. (I do love acapella singing, btw.). This church was not founded on a man, but on the Bible. 17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man . Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. VICTORY BAPTIST CHURCH. The New IFB website and social media accounts - launched in early 2018 - have been taken down, and some pastors have distanced themselves from Anderson and his movement. I personally do not think tithing is wrong, When Jesus refers to tithing didnt He uphold it & only objected to other sins but did not speak aganist it. 3:8-13) are appointed from the local congregation and approved by the majority vote. But still, I think if I wanted to lead Worship wearing Just a speedo I probably would not be allowed to do this in most Churches. I met him about 25 years ago and our spirits bore witness that we are the sons of God. Throughout all your conjecture you based none of you opinions on scripture. All others miss-use the name. . Im surprised but shouldnt be by now that folks know so very little about their respective churches/traditions, most just sit in the pew and simply repeat what their pastor has told them, never checking and studying for themselves, what thus saith the Lord You act so surprised that I questioned you about which Church of Christ you were referring to, do yourself alittle favor and have a look at wikipedias lists of Churches of Christ First and foremost I wanted to make sure you werent referring to the The Church of Christ of Latter Day Saints which is a flat-out cult. The Independent Fundamental Baptist church could be defined as a cult given the multiple definitions of a cult and the characteristics of the IFB. IFCA International - Home Page Also, from personal expreicnei know how it feels to be spirtually abused. I attend an IFB church. It was organized in Cicero, Illinois, U.S., in June 1930 as the successor to the American Conference of Undenominational Churches. Select church size. I only know of two. We can clearly see the Spirit of God in your gracious post. I dont know awhole lot about the Episcopal church, but Im sure there are some wonderful folks there. Historically, Baptists were never a part of the Roman Catholic Church or the Protestant Reformation and therefore can not be correctly called protestors or Protestants. In Germany, the state church is Lutheran and in England, the Anglican church, France, the Roman Catholic Church, etc. If someone wanted to Tithe down to a tenth of all they owned & sell or give value of itIm sure they could. The cops accused them of urinating in the water. We never shun people who leave the church. http://www.av1611.org/ this web site is dial-the-truth ministries, but I call them dial-the-. v-43 Stop grumbling among yourselves, Jesus answered. Independent Fundamental Baptist Churches in Chandler, AZ It is difficult to trace Baptist churches down through history. . Tithing is not for God. If I wanted to wear a sponge bob costume while leading worship I probably would not be allowed to do this in most Churches. 451 Likes, 8 Comments - Spencer Smith (@spencersmith312) on Instagram: "I was saved at 18 at an independent, fundamental baptist church. I find it difficult sometimes to keep Gods sovereignty and my responsibility in balance. Later in history, around 600 AD, Austin, Catholic monk, was sent to Britain by Pope Gregory the Great. I have spoken to my pastor about this, and he insists that its fine for me as a parishioner to come as I am, but he as a pastor should be dressed alittle better, I told him if that is a personal conviction that is fine, but did he have any scripture to support that, of course he didnt. On the other hand, we are responsible for witnessing to people God brings our way. Tithing was never supposed to be for the maintenance of the house of God. We believe that Jesus is the only one who can reconcile us to God. It was almost like watching 12yr olds trying to run a corporation. This is the biggest wrong teaching of the Churches of Christ, although you have lots of company in this wrong belief, it is still wrong teaching. Jesus was prophesied in the old testament. The mighty IFB has spoken It looks like I'm wasting my time. I think most people would agree with me on this. It was horrible. Tithing preceded the NT and ended with the establishment of the New Covenant. I cannot judge this man. (Colossians 1:18; Matthew 18:15-20; Acts 15:22-21; 2 Corinthians 8:1-5, 19, 23) Priesthood of the Believer. There were other factors, such as the show business aspects of the preaching as well as the powertripping that actually planted my difficulties to begin with. No, we are to teach and preach the Word. If the apostle Peter wanted to show up to Church one day while he was stripped and naked he would probably not be allowed in most Churches unless he put on some clothes. Visit Pinterests profile on Pinterest. If it furthers & advances the Kingdom of God (the Church, Evangelism, Missionaries, etc), then I believe it is going to God. If you have any more questions or comments (as long as they are not rude), please feel free to email me again. Seeking to be faithful to the Word of God, the early Bible church movement sought to provide fellowship, counsel, and cooperation. However, history is clear that in the beginning and into the 9th Century there were churches in Britain that rejected pedo-baptism, popery and other false doctrines of the Catholics. . Shall we offer excuses that were only human? Of all my favorite things to do now that Im out of that situation, is raise my hands and praise my precious Saviour when He stirs my heart. Thousands of Southern Baptist Churches didn't baptize a single convert last year. I understand all that. Independent fundamental Baptist churches include those loosely affiliated in fellowshipsmore common in the Northas well as those whose pastors may share particular networksmore common in. If it isnt to much trouble please explain your assertion. How can you not see that? Im referring to a mistake I made in my fairly long comment, which you may not have seen yet, once you do youll understand I was correcting a statement in my next to last paragraph. Greetings, I agree! When and Where Was the First Recorded Baptist Church in History, The Beginnings of the Baptists in America, https://www.wayoflife.org/free_ebooks/hyles_effect.php, http://www.wvec.com/news/local/INSIDE-A-NAKED-CHURCH-85062392.html, You Might Be an Independent Fundamental Baptist if, Broad Stroking and Sweeping Generalizations Fallacy, Harold Camping Fails to Predict the Rapture, The 10 Commandments of the Independent Fundamental Baptists, 92-Year-Old Woman Kicked Out of Church for not Tithing. One Baptist church, however, did begin after 1714, in Surry Country, and another at Burleigh, Virginia. In determining who were the first Baptists, you must first identify who you are referring to. Thomas Gould, died in 1675 an untimely death, partially because of his having his health broken by several long imprisonments. amzn_assoc_placement = "adunit0"; amzn_assoc_tracking_id = "lifewaymarket-20"; amzn_assoc_ad_mode = "manual"; amzn_assoc_ad_type = "smart"; amzn_assoc_marketplace = "amazon"; amzn_assoc_region = "US"; amzn_assoc_linkid = "7e0c08952d33ff8dd3379356ab6731f1"; amzn_assoc_asins = "1479180297,B00A4SKJXG,1250026261,0830816607,0809134888,0884197689,B00X531UN0,0877888256,0764205374"; amzn_assoc_title = "BaptistDeception.com Book Club Picks"; The validity of a church as being a true Biblical New Testament church does not rest in it ability to show an unbroken line of succession from the time of Christ. ABSOLUTELY we teach tithing if you dont want to give a tenth back to the God that saved your soul from hell, then I wonder if youve met the same God that I have. Through preaching the New Testament, the Gospel went forth in power and the Baptist movement grew rapidly. Questions/comments: Pastor Brewer's email: Wprophet@aol.com. Again adhering to correct doctrine and proper practices should be the focus in our lives. It is difficult to document these congregations because they were rarely in the spot light of history. This kind of power is frightening to meet with. My point is that Tithing is good since Jesus says they should not have left it undone. He is much better at it than we are. Why, because it was founded on Gods Word and there is no necessity that it have contact with some other church which belongs to a succession of churches. This is known as the Argumentum ad populum fallacy. I think that you should go kill your children. Baptists strongly insist that Gods Word is not up for arbitration or subject to the individuals, groups, denominations or churchs private interpretation. Patrick was born in Scotland in 360 AD and sold into slavery at age sixteen and carried to Ireland. About this time the Puritans were also becoming strong in England. My point (and I just found Scripture) was that Jesus did not disnounce it as badHe says (less I misunderstand) these you ought to have done without leaving the rest undone. HARVEY ND 58341 (701) 324-4415 CH/HM. This lasted only one Sunday however, and the following Sunday the doors were opened and services held in defiance of the order. There were nine original members of the church which included two women. The bible says Let God be true and every man a liar So follow the Word and you will never be led astray. Further, suppose that a Bible somehow was to fall from the plane and the inhabitants of this isolated land were to be able to pick up that Bible and read the text for themselves. Share this: Believers are not set apart by the clothing they wear so much as their conduct, character, and lifestyle. Im not sure about this one. Encyclopaedia Britannica's editors oversee subject areas in which they have extensive knowledge, whether from years of experience gained by working on that content or via study for an advanced degree. Your reasoning is faulty. Independent Baptist Directory of Churches You want to point out that you think that I have anger issues, but have a look at your comments, I dont see awhole lot of love dripping off of your comments either. Also in regards to the restcommon sense is you give according to how you deal with your values ,etc. It is the Lords tithe, and God chose to use his tithe in the OT and in the NT for the maintenance of the priesthood (those that are called out for the specific service of God in ministering to the Lord and to the people on behalf of the Lord) and the maintenance of the house of God a place wherein Gods people assemble for the purpose of worship (honoring) the Lord. Calvary Chapels do not believe that baptism is necessary for membership in a local assembly. A side note, my sons group In Search Of Reason has been selected to play for CreationFest this year. The point is Jesus not only did not condem it but He said it should not have been left undone. He was a presbyter and former deacon in the Anglican church. They direct their own affairs under the authority of the New Testament Scriptures, free from the outside interference. I heard an absolutely beautiful message, very uplifting, of course no singing, (Btw I like acapella singing, no biblical reason for it though) also didnt talk about baptism that day. 1. 4 Reasons Christians Are Wrong About Homosexuality, 63. It stands for devotion and a strict obedience to God and his commandments. This free resource is here to help you find an independent Baptist church in your area or while traveling. Further, he ignored the reading of the order of service and simply preached the Scriptures. Particular Baptist had their beginnings around 1616, when some dissenters left the Church of England and were lead by the Rev. That is what saved believers have always believed, because that is what the New Testament which is Gods Word to man says. Thanks and may God bless. However, John the Baptist was an Old Testament saint and the last Old Testament prophet (Matt. Although the Roman Catholic Church claims him as one of their saints, there is no evidence he even knew the Catholic church existed. We give out of thankfulness to God for what Christ has accomplished as we are led by the Spirit. 13:17, Acts 20:28, Eph. 6.) It was not the man who founded the church that was important, but the New Testament principles on which he founded this church. Join us for lively old-fashioned singing, fellowship, (and yes!) when I said I hear a lot that the IFB has strict dress standards. Well last night the first speaker, spoke on Hell, he said not many preach on Hell anymore (yea, right!) He has been an alcoholic, had been sexually abused in a Catholic orphanage, had lost his family, and had lost everything. Because Knolleys refused to baptize infants and preached against it he was banned from the colony by the famous Puritan governor Cotton Mather. 5. 5) shun folks that have left the church I commented that some of the teen girls were dressed entirely innappropriately with tiny shorts, which were very immodest, so there certainly should be a standard for modesty.
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