Ernie Simmons of Olathe, Kansas, a gunsmithing "whiz-kid" and a fairly good skeet shooter to boot-they were involved in the later cost-saving Winchester ventilated ribs for various Winchester shotguns- Model 12's, Model 50's, possibly Model 21's-. Winchester Model 12 16Ga Pump Shotgun 28" Excellent condition Made in 1939 Gun #: 903285649 Seller: JerArms GA Sales: 60 $872.00 Full Details More from this Seller 1 Image (s) Winston Churchill custom Winchester Model 12 Pigeon 20 gauge, gold relief, staggering wood, provenan. Look for an offset proof mark on the barrel to indicate whether the rib came on the gun or was fitted aftermarket. The slide lock is automatically released by the forward nudge of recoil in the Model 12. Great communications. (no choke stamp on barrel). Nickel and ivory sight beads on the aftermarket Simmons rib, with choke marked full and 2 3/4 inch chamber. This combination, which averaged 83.6% at 40 yards, averaged 44.2% at 60 yards! 1938 lists the stock for a 12 gauge skeet grade as 14" with a Buttplate. Since Every shotgun manufacturer is a friend of mine, Askins views were well known in the industry. SERIAL NUMBER 39346 NO ALTERATIONS OF WOOD OR METAL. The new value of a WINCHESTER MODEL 12 shotgun has fallen ($937.31) dollars over the past 12 months to a price of $484.80 . It was a little rough so I am doing a restoration. 12 Gauge, For sale is the Winchester Model 12. Very fine as professionally custom finished, showing 95% of the refurbished blue, with scattered rust spotting and handling marks. The pidgeon-grade duck gun was discontinued in 1961. Bore and action are excellent. No Reserve. The survival of both Western and Winchester now depended on Olin management. A lot of us will have to begin learning to hit long-range ducks. Sounds like an invitation to join the long-range duck hunting cult! The surge of zooming pinions [wings]! McIntosh notes that the Super-X shotshell was a breakthrough to the modern age of shotgun ammunition. In a full-page ad in the September 1926 issue of the American Rifleman, Western claimed Killing power 15 to 20 yards beyond the effective range of ordinary loads.This was based on a documented reduction in stringing of the shot charge, from about 20 feet to about 4 feet, at 42 yards. Winchester Model 1300 Speed Pump - 12 GA $395.00: 0 $395.00 5d 15h 14m The stock is the upgraded Monte Carlo style capped pistol grip, heavy pad, upgraded wood, and cheek rest. The Olins soon added to the attractiveness of the Model 12 duck gun by bringing out a new 1 5/8-ounce load for the 3-inch shell. For more information: www.p65warnings.ca.gov. I hunker down and blaze away. Winchester designed the Model 42 to use the new shell and the combo went to market in 1932. Mechanically, the Model 12 duck gun differs little in design from the standard Model 12. Mechanically excellent. Helping out a person with 3378 posts who if they spent 5min. That luck ran out following World War I when the arms industry declined and the management of Winchester was relinquished to outsiders. When I went to the university in a different town I worked for another gun shop that was an authorized Winchester Repair Center. Thanks for the reference. No Reserve . So here is a history lesson on the skeet grade. Down pitch remained 2-1/2 inches with the 30-inch barrel throughout production. Just to add th the issue, here's a note that I copied from Trapshooters.com some time age. It won't be a collector but a shooter and should draw some attention. Action works very nicely. Two birds tumble all awry from among the leaders. Pandemonium! This is why they were rust blued instead of hot blued. Keith stated in 1967: The old 70% standard is now obsolete and most any full choke gun will go 75% or better. I still have a few 2nd style action slides left. A red rubber Winchesterre coil pad was added the first year of production. Free Shipping, No Credit Card Fees. ORIGINAL BOX INCLUDED. Winchester ~ Model 12 Trap ~ Pump Action Shotgun ~ 12 Gauge. Winchester cautiously claimed 70 to 75% pattern in a 30 inch circle at 40 yards.. Simmons rib on model 12 - The DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Terms and Conditions and Privacy Policy. It is, somehow, not easy to avoid shoving shells wrong end first into ones gun. It is at my engraver now. organized, dont tell you a lot about what youre buying, and leave you on your The history of Oliver F. Winchester (1810-1880) and his endeavors in the manufacturing of fire-arm sat Bridgeport and New Haven, Connecticut, is filled with circumstances that could have led to corporate failure. JavaScript is disabled. Charles Askins was the leading expert on shotguns in the first half of the last century. In an ad in the October 1952 American Rifleman, Winchester proclaimed. This likely was the last mention of solid ribs in Winchester literature. The duck gun was discontinued in 1963. Get Guns.com offers and news!! Jack OConnor was there and sets the scene nicely in the Complete Book of Shooting. Charles Askins confirmed the tighter patterns and greater effective range in the field. Riffle's excellent reference book on the Model 12 notes the 1919 patent date for the two-pin rib, but suggests that the rib was not on the market until 1920. The late style stock featured a flared pistol grip moved back a bit from the trigger. Although the quality of the rib will be the same as the original Winchester, the only way a Simmons rib looks OK on a Model 12 is if they DON'T put their silly name down the side of the rib. These were turned out by the Hunter Arms Company of Fulton, N.Y. in L.C. Lot 6593: Winchester Model 42 Slide Action Shotgun . Most books say they did not. It also got a new action slide. Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. Thus it was that the American Rifleman staff thought it odd that Winchester brought out the 3-inch chamber in their Model 12 pump gun. After college and had some $$$ I started collecting them. If it's a 12 gauge, replacement factory butt stocks can be hard to come by. Serial numbers match on barrel and receiver. Nash Buckingham was one of the great duck-hunting writers of the period. Will Winchester ever build the Model 12 again? My gun is a pump action Model 12 shotgun with a grooved slide handle (forearm). Bids. The standard 12-gauge duck load in 1921 was a 2 3/4-inch shell holding 3 3/4-drams equivalent powder and 1 1/4-ounces of shot. Buttstocks of duck guns had lead slugs inserted into the wood beneath the recoil pad. I have a donut post trap gun but not a pigeon, had two 3 inch guns, one had donut post the other had a round post. Winchester Model 12 Original and Reproduction Firearm Gun Parts Manufactured in 1959. 98% original, WINCHESTER MODEL 25 PUMP SHOTGUN SOLID FRAME MODEL BARREL LENGTH 28" CHOKE MODIFIED. Model 12 duck guns could be ordered in pidgeon grade, featuring fancy wood and meticulous fitting and finish of parts. Winchester Pump Shotguns (2) - Collectors Firearms 30 Barrel. Askins concludes How far are we going to be able to kill ducks? That is why I have never used one of my duck guns for duck hunting. Franklin and his two sons John M. Olin and Spencer T. Olin were the managers of Olin Industries and Western Cartridge Company in 1931. Powered by UBB.threads PHP Forum Software 7.7.5. I am still going with "Winchester sent Model 12s to Simmons for ribs, but Simmons sold them." The new Model 12 duck gun was introduced to long-range waterfowl hunters habituated to heavy double shotguns chambered for 3-inch shells. Their attitude is summed up by Elmer Keith in Shotguns by Keith: the satisfaction of seeing big ducks crumple at long range and come down and bounce on the ground or splash high in the water is the cream of shotgun shooting., It is my view that the long-range duck-hunting cult was a legacy from the days of market hunting. Winchester ~ Model 12 Custom~ 12 GA | Cabela's The Simmons rib is done at Winchesters direction as it has the WP proof offset from the rib. You jack the shell out and it goes off under your nose. Winchester Model 12 12 ga 26" oal aftermarket poly choke and vent rib Small depression in the magazine tube, as shown in pictures. The 12 month average price is $622.51 new and $661.18 used. I rebuilt all of the trigger assemble with all new parts just reusing the guard. Loose bolts and excess head-space occur only after long service. In their view, the Model 12 pump with 3-inch chamber was likely to sell better than a similarly chambered Model 21 double. The nearest thing to a Model Twelve that could appear, whether domestic or foreign, would be a shotgun with the same model designation, but it would not and could not be a Model Twelve. Browning, in fact, did import foreign-made copies of the Model 12 after Madis wrote the above. The gun looked to be in excellent condition except some nitwit had inlayed a white plastic diamond in the stock at some point. Winchester Model 12 12 ga 30 in Barrel 2 3/4" Full vent rib Barrel NICE 3-inch Super Twelve Shotshell My copy of Winchesters Catalog No. This gun has been single family owned since bought used in 1967. Winchester Model 12 16 ga NIB Never Assembled! We limited our shooting to 25 yards or less and seldom missed. I RATE THE BLUING AT 98% AND THE WOOD AT 96+%. Free Shipping, No Credit Card Fees. The Model 21 received duck gun status in 1940, although 3-inch chambers could be ordered earlier. Ab steadies the boat. Winchester Shotguns - Model 12 for sale - Guns International In 1960, length of pull was increased to 13-3/4 inches on duck guns. The standard length was 2-5/8 inches. only one I have ever seen unless TS member owns one? I am tempted to stop off awhile and call. His Super Fox 12 gauge magnum double averaged 83.7% (two-barrel average) of 1 3/8ounces of shot under the same conditions. Winchester proof steel replaced nickel steel in the manufacture of all Winchester firearms in the early 1930s. We have a Rangemasters are here to answer all your questions about our products or process. The earliest gun they found with a 2-pin rib has a serial number of 2037xx with a date of June 30th, 1919. The famous Winchester Model 1912 pump shotgun was designed by Winchester's Thomas C. Johnson. Askins rule of thumb of 70 years ago still pertains with modern lead-shot ammunition. Madis states Ventilated ribs were rarely offered on [duck] guns. However, The fact is a few duck guns were provided with these ribs. Dave Riffles book and the various catalogs I have indicate that the Winchester new ventilated rib was an option from about 1954 to 1959. Popularly named the Perfect Repeater at its introduction, it largely set the standard for pump action shotguns over its 51-year high-rate production life. Standard markings, with matching numbers on the receiver and barrel. Alex, we don't have enough info to give you an informed opinion. Possible the fore end has been either replaced or re done. It has a fiber optic front sight which is not origina, SOLD Ser no 1949422, Mfg 1962, 3-Pin Vent Rib, Full, 30" Barrel, Signed by M Dubber, Who I beleive was a colt engraver, 14 1/2" Lop to Winchester Red Vented Pad, Comes with case, Excel, Winchester Custom Model 12 20ga 2 3/4" 28" full choke barrel,Simmons vent rib,serial #683559,fancy French Walnut checkered stocks with great color and figure,jeweled bolt and lifter,ex, WINCHESTER MODEL 12 HEAVY DUCK 12GA 3" MAGNUM. Later pump guns, such as the Remington Model 870 and Mossberg Model 500, do not have the slide lock feature. SN is 167xx, all numbers do match. Numbers match on barrel and receiver. Advanced . I included #2 shot because this size shot has always been my goose and turkey load in 3-inch shells. These ribs have Simmons markings. bolt act. Winchester Model 12 Heavy Duck Gun 30" Simmons Vent Rib 1953 Pre-64 Winchester sent some M-12s to Simmons to have ribs installed, Simmons returned them to Win. BARREL 30" CHOKE FULL 90% FACTORY BLUE ORIGINAL FACTORY HEAVY DUCK RECOIL PAD WOOD VERY GOOD. 2023 Rock Island Auction Company. $899.97. I worked in two gun shops when I was in college. "SN:561491. Sto, Used Winchester 12 20 Gauge, Pump-Action Shotgun, 25" Barrel Wood Stock, No Box. Cred, Ser no 510553, Mfg 1928 , Numbers Match, 30" Donut Post Vent Rib that is stamped Imp Cyl but has been relined and is Mod, 2nd barrel is 30" Donut Post Vent Rib stamped full but is Mod, Stamp, This Winchester Model 12 was manufactured in 1955 and is in good condition for its age. We get the FFL from your store others make you find it, copy it, and fax it. The rib wasn't offered until 1954 according to the Dave Riffle Model 12 book so it wasn't originally produced at the Winchester Factory. Range was 40 yards from gun muzzle to target frame. Mfg 1917, 25" Barrel, Mod, Correct Forend and Buttstock, Small chip out of toe of butt plate, Wood is not damaged, Good Bore, Pictures show condition, Buyer pays 50.00 shipping Pa residents add 6, This Winchester Model 12 is a post 1972 gun with a "Y' prefix serial number. In fact, Madis states Any twelve gauge Model Twelve could be re-chambered and reworked to shoot three inch shells for a small additional charge[by Winchester], yet few guns were reworked in this way. I can find no external differences in receiver dimensions, other than the ejection port, between standard and magnum versions. These are rare, a line can be seen along the dounut post on both sides. I believe that Stadt's book is one of the few that actually states that Winchester did produce M42s with Winchester vent ribs. Ithaca brought out their Magnum 10double to use the new shell. The ducks shot by me in the accompanying photograph were taken with Skeet boring and trap loads of #7 1/2-shot. The 12-gauge 3-inch magnum shotshell was developed to achieve this objective. w/ 22" barrel in original box w/ paperwork 1 of 1,000 #UG5 2 Paul Jaeger Jenkintown, PA. 30-06 cal. The duck gun made in 1952 has a Simmons ventilated rib. Winchester - Model 12, Deluxe, Pump Action, RARE 28ga. Bore is excellent. It has a Simmons rib, which is not out of the question for Winchester to have used according to Maddis in his book of the model 12's. The metal finish is superior to a field grade gun, higher polish and a matted receiver top and magazine tube. Winchester 2- pinned ventilated rib on the model 12 Westerns innovation was progressive-burning powder that deformed fewer shot during acceleration. The Olins used the Western ammunition plant at East Alton, Illinois, as collateral for borrowing about four million in cash, no small feat in the fall of 1931. Free Shipping, No Credit Card Fees. so recall pads helped and they offerd hydro coil-stocks. The help you need is to get a life. Askins Ithaca 10-gauge double with 2 7/8-inch chambers averaged 86.9% with 1 5/8-ounces of shot. 1935 3" magnum offerd, will convert all 12 gages if wanted to 3" magnums, the begining of the long forcing cone. Item . Enthusiastic hunters bought the new repeater. We'rebringing a level of Thanks= Re-Up- forgot the offset marks on a factory ribbed gun- two of my 5 pre-1950 M12's have the factory solid rib, and the 1948 Pigeon Trap has the "Old Milled Rib" with the sandblast bulled top and the "Duck-Billed" rib extension. DAC 1 1/2"&n, FRO YOUR VIEWING IS A EXCEPTIONALY NICE MODEL 12 IN 3' HEAVY DUCK. Field grade pump gun with Mod choke barrel. Also, the rib and its receiver extension cover the Winchester proof marks, a sure sign that it is not factory installed. For specifics on Copyright Law and Has a Cutz on the end of the barrel. Its even harder to find a 2-barrel set 16 gauge. The Nylon 66, a relatively inexpensive rimfire with faux woodgrain, was the first successful synthetic-stock firearm. Blue is good showing wear on high spots. You are also correct that the different rib styles used on Model 12's can get confusing..EG. I have owned a Pigeon grade model 12 trap Dounut vent rib, built late 1955, now that's an oddity, who would order a Pigeon Trap with a Dounut Rib (?) It looks like it is in very good shape. Can you help me out? Winchester Model 42 Slide Action Shotgun (#0596) on Mar 24, 2023 I was at a local gunshop this morning and was looking at a model 12 2-3/4" that had a Simmons rib. George Watrous, a longtime Winchester employee with many talents, was commissioned to investigate the good and bad points of Winchesters pre-war line and make suggestions for postwar improvement. The steel has a nice patina and the stock has most of the lacquer worn off. This is a correct factory Skeet grade 28 gauge with solid rib on the 26 skeet choked barrel. Buckingham had a solid 60-yard duck gun and was on his way to becoming a legend. PDF March 31, 2023 GUN LOT LIST Page #1 - rgilliganauctions.com Experts can attest to the vast improvements they have found shooting with the Simmons Ventilated Rib. The Model 12 shotgun, initially the Model 1912, hit the market in August 1912. The used value of a WINCHESTER MODEL 12 shotgun has fallen ($310.78) dollars over the past 12 months to a price of $447.25 . Note: The posting of Copyrighted material on this forum is prohibited without As far as early 2 pins, remember there were a few made as early as 1919, standard and "graded" model 12's (ie) "Black Diamaonds" they had the longer checkered forearm. This gives a wrinkled appearance on bottom of pistol grip and bottom of forend. My name is Chuck 620 515 0556. The earliest Simmons catalog I ever found was 1949 when Ernie began advertising his "Special vent rib" which was the "Dounut Post". Sold them when we down sized to a smaller house that did not have a custom built safe room in it like the old house. Simmons vent rib and custom AA+ walnut furniture. The silhouette provides a precise aiming point. or Rudy Dozenrod out of Wyndemere, S.D. However, killing ducks at long range remained the objective of many duck hunters. Guns.com is built to be simple easily organized products, useful descriptions from experts, and support to guide you to the right choice. Factroy finish on metal, custom wood. Fanciers of long-range shotguns now had a 12-gauge repeater shooting a 10-gauge shot load. later on flinching became a problem with 12 gauge shooters becouse of 300 round tournaments. Severe drought conditions gripped the United States and Canada during the 1930s. It is first shooting light. Gunsmithing Services - Simmons Gun Repair Askins wrote in his 1929 book Modern Shotguns and Loads: Perhaps half the game that is killed in America today is shot with repeating shotguns, pump or automatic. Whether you're looking for a truck gun, something for the bug out bag, or a do-anything firearm we have you covered. This product contains chemicals known to the state of California to cause cancer and birth defects or other reproductive harm. Another sign of an after factory rib were the numer of 30" Full field guns later ribbed either with Simmons or MoneyMaker ventilated ribs, but the top milled groove in the receiver was a dead-give-away as to that, and when the Model 12 ruled the ATA roost, I am sure many "newbies" bought those modified and restocked field guns and thought - "Wow- now I have a Model 12 Trap gun- look out Vandalia, here I come"--I have several post 1935 12 gauge Model 12 buttstocks and also 18 ring forearms in my "parts boxes, also older logo and non-logo repro 12 gauge black bakelite buttplates-the 16 and 20 and 28- all on the same size receiver, take the same stock configuration. Winchester model 12 26" vent rib poly choke barrel seller description. Yes the 2-pin milled rib was costly to manufacture. It still is. On the other hand, a duck caught in the middle of one of these dense-centered pattern sat 40 yards would receive a dozen or more pellets. Westerns 3-inch 12-gauge magnum with 1 3/8-ounces of shot was introduced the same year. Regards Chuck. You are correct. The latest 2-pin rib gun researched has a serial number of 19114xx with a date of August 26th, 1960. Introduced in 20 gauge in 1912, 16 and 12 gauge guns followed in 1914. Rudy was well known with model 12' s and pre-64 model 70's now as far a Felix, he's in a better place now. Recent 3 1/2-inch 12-gauge shells will create dangerous pressure in the 3-inch duck gun chamber. Firearms dont get much more iconic than John Moses Brownings legendary Auto-5 semi-auto shotgun, affectionately called the Humpback for its distinctive drop at the rear of the receiver. 12 Gauge, This is a very nice Winchester Model 12 Trap pump action shotgun in 12 gauge. But for some reason, buying a gun online can Winchester installed Simmons ribs and Simmons-designed ventilated ribs for several years. Lot 6593: Winchester Model 42 Slide Action Shotgun with Simmons Vent RibAuction Date: February 17, 2023. The first was helping the gunsmiths. His handload was a .heavy load of Herco powder and 2 ounces of shot, either 2s or 4s. Original appearing donut post and round post vent rib Model 12s with no Simmons markings and proof marks in the proper places are generally thought by collectors to have been made to completion in the Winchester factory. The gun weighed 8 1/2 pounds with its 32-inch Full choke barrel. WINCHESTER MODEL 12 HEAVY DUCK GUN 30" SIMMONS VENT RIB 1953 PRE-64 RARE 12 GA. MAGNUM 3" EDITION PROOF MARKING - 12 GAUGE MAGNUM - 5 - 30 " I put one of those BIG soft foam risers on the comb and shot it that way for years. Simmons also removed Solid Ribs from barrels and added his rib to those barrels. Pictures are of the item listed. 14" LOP OVER THE ORIGINAL W, Up for sale I have a 100% NIB Winchester model 12 chambered in 16ga. The deeply blued barrel and receiver frame are very good. The funds are returned to the states for wildlife restoration projects. THE SHOT GUN IS IN VERY GOOD CONDITION , WITH A 28 IN VENTILATED RIB BARREL WITH FULL CHOKE. The 1 5/8-ounce load of the mid-30s bought the 12 magnum a few more yards of range. and/or Simmons, left in the "white", and sent to the other. Olin included his new Super-X magnum 3-inch shells loaded with 1 3/8 ounces of shot. own to figure out what you want. Keep in mind that all of these changes in stock design were running changes and thus some overlapping of designs occurred in production. Chamber marked 2 3/4", choke marked modified, and 14" LOP. Model 12, What is it? | Winchester Shotguns | Forum | Winchester Its been debated over the years if the solid rib model 12 barrel were silver brazed or fused with heat? Dave Riffle in his book, The Greatest Hammerless Repeating Shotgun Ever Built: The Model 12 1912-1964, states The Winchester Model 12 was, and still remains, the only gun that was offered in over 100 different variations or configurations during its lifetime. It is fair to say that Winchester produced Model 12 shotguns for every conceivable shotgunning special interest group, including duck hunters. It is in excellent condition with only light handing marks, Used Browning BT99 Plus 12 gauge 28" bbl fixed choke mod good condition no box no manuals Buyer pays shipping Millers Gun Center Located in New Castle, Delaware "Home of TAX, WINCHESTER MODEL 12 16GA PUMP ACTION SHOTGUN, 26" BBL, 2 3/4, POLY CHOKE, RIBLESS, EJECTORS, SINGLE TRIGGER, MEDIUM DARK FIGURED WALNUT, PISTOL GRIP, LOP 14 3/8, 1 1/2, 2 5/16, 7LBS 3OZ, 985 BLUE, Winchester. Winchester Model 12 12 ga 30 in Barrel 2 3/4" Full vent rib Barrel NICE! Did they actually produce any in 1919 or did it take some time to get them out to the public after patent was approved? The Model 12 2 pin rib has always been "KING" but don't turn you nose up @ a Dounut Post model 12 as production in Trap & Skeet model only lasted from late 1955 to 1956 then round post was alternate rib to the 2 pin. But the charm of idle jump-shooting is far too potent.. That is true about Model 42s, but, as far as researchers know, it is not true about Model 12s. This gun is in excellent condition and has very desireable solid rib barrel with full choke. Winchester Model 12 12 GA For Sale Winchester 12 GA Model 12. Although the quality of the rib will be the same as the original Winchester, the only way a Simmons rib looks OK on a Model 12 is if they DON'T put their silly name down the side of the rib. SN 1231992 Up for sale is a very clean and unique Winchester Model 12 in Pigeon Grade. Winchester Model 12 Shotguns For Sale Shotgun Winchester Model 12. No other pump shotgun feels like the duck gun. In reading Stadt's statements on page 109 of the latest version of this book, I don't see where he is too sure of his statements. At a reasenable Price, you can have that gun you allways wanted without all this drama. Some patterns of #4 shot might let a duck escape if it were caught just inside the margin of the 30-inch circle. Checkered semi-fancy walnut pistol grip stock with extended forearm and a solid Winchester recoil pad. The slide handle of early duck guns was round with 18 circular grooves.
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